KDE Games/IRC Meetings/2008-07-01-log

[01:29] <piacentini> hi people [01:29] <krish> hey piacentini [01:30] <piacentini> let us start? [01:30] <krish> I am here [01:30] <piacentini> Agenda at http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Games/IRC_Meeting [01:30] <mikelima> hi all [01:30] <krish> thks [01:30] <piacentini> hi, Luciano [01:30] --> neenaonline has joined this channel (n=neenaoff@unaffiliated/neenaoffline). [01:30] <it-s> hey people [01:30] <piacentini> Well, I think we need to talk a bit about 4.1 [01:30] <it-s> I'm here [01:31] <piacentini> Anyone seen Matt recently? [01:31] <it-s> nope [01:31] <it-s> I'm beginning to worry [01:31] <piacentini> Well, I do not think there is much to do. Any stuff pending? [01:31] <piacentini> I will take that as a NO [01:31] <it-s> well, I'm still working with a couple of devs on getting the visuals right [01:32] <it-s> but rather then that - all is good [01:32] <piacentini> Artwork freeze is next Tuesday, right? [01:32] <it-s> I think so [01:32] <piacentini> OK, so I think we are basically ready for 4.1, and can start planning ahead [01:32] <it-s> I'm almost done anyways [01:33] <piacentini> About the current state of the module, I think we are fine, but not much new is happening [01:33] <piacentini> Which is ok after the push we had in the past 18 months [01:33] <it-s> well, we will have a welcome addition for 4.2 [01:33] <piacentini> But we could surely use Akademy to boost our efforts again [01:33] <it-s> a few of those I think [01:33] <mikelima> piacentini: well, there are quite a few new games, though. [01:34] <it-s> piacentini: well, they have rejected my presentation this year :/ I have been depressed for a week [01:34] <krish> akademy? [01:34] <piacentini> Not good... any reason? [01:34] <it-s> piacentini: no reasons given [01:34] <it-s> just a "sorry, no space for you' [01:34] <piacentini> Well, we can still do a BoF session and discuss 4.2 issues [01:35] <krish> No talks for kdegames this time ? [01:35] <piacentini> maybe the BoF is even more useful than a presentation slot, as a consolation prize [01:35] <it-s> nope [01:35] <mikelima> it-s: well, you can alwaysw arrangue us at the BOF! [01:35] <it-s> mikelima: yeahm that I will ;) but I hoped I'll have a go at the entire KDE with a presentation :P [01:36] <it-s> anyhow [01:36] <piacentini> about the new games, let us know [01:36] <it-s> a new *sure* addition to 4.2 will be Ktron resurected by LegolasV [01:36] <it-s> LegolasV: are you here to speak? [01:36] <mikelima> oh, nice. [01:37] <LegolasV> it-s: hey [01:37] <it-s> LegolasV: please introduce yourself to the gang [01:37] <LegolasV> it-s: yep I'm here, just not speaking that much as I am working on some university things ;) [01:37] <krish> gang! [01:37] <LegolasV> ok [01:37] <LegolasV> well.. Hi, I'm Stas, from the Netherlands [01:37] <LegolasV> currently working on Ktron (/SnaKe) [01:38] <LegolasV> and computer science student at the University of Twente [01:38] <krish> nice [01:39] <krish> btw, I wanted to say something. [01:39] <it-s> krish: go ahead [01:39] <krish> I have been talking to LFY magazine people [01:39] <krish> LFY = LinuxForYou [01:39] <krish> I proposed that I'd write a games column for them. [01:39] <tsdgeos> roxxors [01:40] <krish> continuous series of game reviews [01:40] <it-s> krish: :D have they excepted? [01:40] <krish> it-s: its still in discussion [01:40] <it-s> wow! we (may) have our on personal publicity and promotions department! :D [01:40] <krish> If they accept, I'd need details from developers/maintainers of kdegames [01:41] <krish> it-s: no thats not the agenda [01:41] <krish> the agenda is to make kdegames known to newbies who buy that magazine [01:41] <krish> and even pros who like games [01:42] <it-s> krish: I know, but still, even if you manage to push KDEGames forth for a review at least as often as once every 3 month, wthe module will get some attention [01:42] <krish> it-s: yes thats what is going on in my mind [01:42] <it-s> but back to Ktron [01:42] <krish> ok [01:42] <it-s> basicly LegolasV has prted the whole thing in less then a week (I think) [01:42] <krish> but remember. this is subject to *If* they accept my proposal [01:43] <krish> back to Ktron [01:43] <DrIDK> I here.. sorry [01:43] <piacentini> OK, let us organize this a bit [01:43] <piacentini> and follow the agenda [01:43] <CIA-49> huftis * r826925 internal/trunk/ (47 files in 21 dirs): Updated Northern Sami translations for kde4-trunk and summit. [01:44] <piacentini> Legolas, anything you want to say about Ktron? [01:44] <LegolasV> hm, let's see [01:44] <-- Pinaraf has left this server ("restarting X server, please wait..."). [01:45] --> it-s_ has joined this channel ([email protected]). [01:45] <it-s_> sorry, I keep getting disconnectd [01:45] <LegolasV> the last screenshot of the SnaKe mode I made probably was: and for normal: [01:46] <piacentini> Cool, it would be good to have these back [01:46] <it-s_> LegolasV: one think I noticed today while compiling the playground is that Ktron somehow depends on libksirtet [01:46] <it-s_> LegolasV: does it really? [01:47] <LegolasV> not that I know of... maybe I made a mistake on my cmakelists.txt [01:47] <it-s_> ok [01:48] <DrIDK> LegolasV: did you think about ktron's theme ? [01:48] <piacentini> Everything looks clean in the CMakeList [01:48] --> Pinaraf has joined this channel ([email protected]). [01:49] <krish> dont tell me everyone's an artist here! [01:49] <LegolasV> DrIDK: it-s and I have tought about the theme, and I think we are going now to a sort of snakes in a grassland with apples and bushes theme [01:50] <piacentini> Looks cool to me. Let us move to the Akademy discussion to speed up things? [01:50] <piacentini> And then come back for the presentaitons? [01:51] <piacentini> For Akademy, there is not much to say [01:51] <piacentini> Except I would like to know who will be there [01:51] <piacentini> A little show of hands? [01:51] <piacentini> me [01:51] <mikelima> Here I come! [01:51] <-- Pinaraf has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [01:51] <piacentini> Ian is coming [01:51] <piacentini> pinotree? [01:51] --> it-s__ has joined this channel ([email protected]). [01:51] <CIA-49> renard * r826933 messages/trunk/l10n-kde4/fr/messages/kdegames/ (kspaceduel.po libkdegames.po): Mise ?\195?\160 jour par Julien Angot [01:51] <pinotree> yes? [01:51] <piacentini> Eugene is coming to akademy? [01:51] <DrIDK> me [01:52] <piacentini> pinotree: are you going to Akademy? [01:52] <DrIDK> piacentini: yes, eugen comes [01:52] <mikelima> although I may have to sleep under a tree on saturday... [01:52] <pinotree> as long as i find a place where sleep, sure :) [01:52] <piacentini> No vacancies at the hostel? [01:52] <pinotree> no [01:52] <it-s__> I come on 6th... have no idea what am I gona do till 8th :/ [01:52] <piacentini> suggestion: Eugene hunts for a place so the others can sleep :) [01:53] <pinotree> it-s__: come on, at least don't make you find by us as sleepy :) [01:53] --> Pinaraf has joined this channel ([email protected]). [01:54] <krish> MPX and how can we utilize it (discussion) ? [01:54] <piacentini> So, I will attempt to register space for a BoF when it opens [01:54] <it-s__> ok, well the person I invited from Xorg couldn't make it [01:54] <piacentini> Given that we will have quorum for a good discusstion [01:54] <-- neenaonline has left this server (Excess Flood). [01:55] <it-s__> so all I can do is show you this cool video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AryCQ8Ybp6A (sorry it's you tube, couldn't find it in any other format) [01:55] <it-s__> and this website for details: http://wearables.unisa.edu.au/mpx/?q=mpx [01:55] <it-s__> basicly MPX is Multy Pointer X server [01:56] <it-s__> it's already merged into Xorg trunc, though I'm not sure about the details [01:56] <krish> does this already exist in xfce [01:56] <it-s__> I was hoping the guest speaker would explain about it [01:56] <it-s__> krish: no idea [01:56] <krish> ah where did I see this earlier [01:56] <krish> I have seen/read multipoint somewhere I cant remember now [01:56] <mikelima> well, some two-player game may get easier to write... [01:56] <it-s__> it allows users to connect more then one pointer device/keyboard to X server [01:57] <it-s__> mikelima: exactly [01:57] <it-s__> and I see Kmahjongg as a primery condidate [01:57] <mikelima> But does Qt support the extension? [01:57] <it-s__> then Ktron would be very cool in 2 player mode [01:57] <it-s__> mikelima: that I don't know [01:58] <it-s__> the website basicly has all the relevan information go get people started [01:58] <it-s__> and DrIDK says it's not that difficult too [01:58] <piacentini> It seems like something very distant from what we could practically use for 4.2, though. Maybe once it is integrated into Qt (or kdelibs) then we can make use of this. [01:58] <it-s__> that could be a key selling point for kdegames [01:59] <it-s__> piacentini: ok. I'll see how I can push the idea in [01:59] <piacentini> sure [01:59] <piacentini> But I suspect once it is popular you just "gets it" with Xorg [01:59] <-- it-s has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [02:00] <piacentini> So nothing special needs to be done in games, only be aware of the possibility of multiple output [02:00] <krish> any game having good support for gamepads and joysticks [02:00] <piacentini> which is someting Qt would need to handle for us [02:00] <mikelima> piacentini: yes... but look at all the X extensions that nobody uses... [02:00] <piacentini> We can not use them directly without alienating our cross platform friends that will arrive in 4.1 as well [02:00] <mikelima> Although this one is "hip", since it's sort-of what the iphone and company use. [02:01] <piacentini> So I think it needs to be supported at a lower level [02:02] <it-s__> piacentini: the same thing is comming in for windows and mac in near future. at least everione seems to be talking about it a lot [02:02] <it-s__> it just so happens that we got it first [02:02] <piacentini> Sure. The point is that we do not want to write specific code to handle it on each platform [02:02] <it-s__> piacentini: true [02:02] <piacentini> We need to encourage it to be supported at the Qt or kdelibs level [02:03] <it-s__> piacentini: good pint [02:03] <piacentini> That was my point. And sure, we can have a game to be used as a test case for it [02:03] <it-s__> piacentini: :) [02:03] <krish> it-s_ we may have got it first. but there are people who will eventually claim that its under their dRM and invention [02:03] <it-s__> krish: scrue them. what's they gona do? [02:04] <piacentini> We have another item on the agenda, Sound. And I think we can conclude after this [02:04] <piacentini> And continue chatting [02:04] <piacentini> Sound? [02:04] <-- it-s_ has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [02:05] <piacentini> Probably it-s added it [02:05] <DrIDK> I have something to say about sound [02:05] <piacentini> Go on [02:06] --> it-s has joined this channel ([email protected]). [02:06] <DrIDK> So, For ktank, I found Fmod lib, for manage sound in games! It's more easy than phonon! Fmod is create For games! [02:07] <mikelima> DrIDK: wasn't SDLMixer enough? [02:07] <it-s> this Phonon lib is a disaster! it doesn't do anything [02:07] <it-s> not even desktop sounds are handeled right [02:07] <piacentini> fmod lib is not open source (or it was not last time I checked) [02:07] <DrIDK> piacentini: really ?? [02:07] <piacentini> I think it is available only in binary mode, let me check [02:08] <mikelima> Well, i tend to agree... but maybe it will get better in the future. [02:08] <mikelima> We should prod the developers a bit though. [02:08] <piacentini> I agree with mikelima, not sure what to do about it [02:08] <HappySmileMan> Desktop sounds aren't handled right, how so? [02:08] <piacentini> mikelima: Akademy could be good for it [02:08] <mikelima> Although, they are much harder to trigger than aseigo... [02:08] <krish> fmod exists on kde trunk? [02:09] <it-s> HappySmileMan: some sounds are cut in the middle, the startup sound seldom plays to the end, sometimes sounds just diasppar [02:09] <mikelima> anybody tried kgoldrunner? [02:09] <krish> mikelima: I did [02:09] <mikelima> I'm interested in how sound work for you... [02:09] <piacentini> FMOD is a very good commercial sound engine [02:09] <piacentini> It can be licensed for free for shareware games and hobbysts [02:09] <HappySmileMan> Hmm, never really payed much attention to that, I do think I recall it cutting out though... [02:09] <krish> mikelima: no, I dont think I heard any sound [02:09] <piacentini> But it does not come with source, and licensing is not compatible with KDE [02:09] <mikelima> uhm... [02:09] <it-s> ok. I have to go now [02:10] <it-s> lunch time [02:10] <mikelima> When did you compile it? [02:10] <piacentini> mikelima: for me Phonon still cuts all sounds [02:10] <it-s> see you all soon [02:10] <krish> mikelima: let me see wait [02:10] <piacentini> it-s: see you, bye! [02:10] <tsdgeos> piacentini: tried gstreamer backend? [02:10] <piacentini> tsdgeos: not yet [02:10] <piacentini> supposedly better? [02:10] <mikelima> There is an option in the settings menu. [02:10] <mikelima> Check that it is checked. [02:10] <tsdgeos> piacentini: seems so [02:11] <mikelima> uhm... the clipping wsa due to an old xine lib, I think... [02:11] <piacentini> Well, as I say, we are in a position where we need to wait for Phonon backends to mature, and support the devs [02:11] <HappySmileMan> Is the gstreamer backend supposedly better than the Xine one? [02:11] <mikelima> It's a bit nicer here, but not by much. [02:11] <mikelima> And gstreamer seemed to work much better. [02:11] <mikelima> HappySmileMan: it handles more channels better. [02:12] <krish> mikelima: around april 29 I guess [02:12] <krish> mikelima: I dont have the build now. Installed opensuse11 yesterday [02:12] <mikelima> piacentini: on the other hand, phonon does not look a good solution for games... [02:12] <piacentini> People, I need to leave as well in a minute. Agenda is complete, so I think we can call the meeting over, and continue chatting in the channel. Good to see you all here, hopefully we can get productive again near Akademy :) [02:13] <mikelima> it is made to handle streams, while we want sample banks. [02:13] <krish> ok so I stop the log here? [02:13] <mikelima> krish: I did a few updates later. [02:13] <DrIDK> fmod seems to be not opensource... :( :( ..... [02:13] <mikelima> I think the sound was disabled at that date... [02:13] <piacentini> krish: can you post to the wiki? [02:13] <krish> piacentini: yes. already doing [02:13] <piacentini> good!