KDE Games/IRC Meetings/2008-02-02-log

	

[09:50am] milliams joined the chat room.
[09:51am] pcapriotti joined the chat room.
[09:55am] mezz_kolf joined the chat room.
[09:57am] DrIDK joined the chat room.
[09:58am] piacentini: 2 minutes!
[09:58am] tsdgeos: ready....
[09:58am] piacentini: is eugene here?
[09:59am] piacentini: http://techbase.kde.org/index.php?title=Projects/Games/IRC_Meeting#Agenda
[10:00am] You changed the topic to "KDE Games February 2008 meeting in progress".
[10:00am] josel_: good morning
[10:00am] josel_ is now known as josel.
[10:00am] piacentini: Hi. People that are here live (and not logging) please say hi and a quick intro if you are new to these meetings
[10:01am] piacentini: Mauricio Piacentini (hi) working with KMahjongg/KMines
[10:01am] DrIDK: hi working int ktank
[10:01am] ann_lunch is now known as annma.
[10:01am] mezz_kolf: hi, Paul Broadbent, working on Kolf
[10:02am] josel: hi, Johannes Bergmeier, working on KSudoku
[10:02am] ikit: hi, working on Ktank
[10:02am] milliams: Matt Williams, working on KSquares mostly
[10:02am] You changed the topic to "KDE Games Feb 2008 meeting in progress, agenda at http://techbase.kde.org/index.php?title=Projects/Games/IRC_Meeting#Agenda".
[10:03am] piacentini: Also, please check the agenda link
[10:03am] tsdgeos: albert astals, kiriki, ktuberling
[10:03am] mikelima: hi, Luciano Montanaro, working on KGoldrunner
[10:04am] piacentini: Looks like Eugene and Ian could not make it yet, but let us start anyway
[10:04am] piacentini: Big agenda 
[10:04am] tsdgeos: yeah
[10:04am] tsdgeos: too big 
[10:05am] piacentini: I think we could start by the smaller and more concrete steps
[10:05am] piacentini: and then move up to the discussion of more complex topics
[10:05am] piacentini: First topic: new games in consideration for 4.1
[10:05am] tsdgeos: who wants to get in?
[10:05am] piacentini: Deadline iirc is March 31
[10:05am] tsdgeos: yeah
[10:06am] piacentini: Which means March 14 in kdereview at most
[10:06am] tsdgeos: sortof
[10:06am] milliams: Will kblocks be ready?
[10:06am] piacentini: So... I think Ksirk was a candidate.
[10:06am] piacentini: milliams: yes
[10:06am] piacentini: milliams: regarding KBlocks: I am waiting for widgets on canvas to land on qt-copy
[10:06am] piacentini: Thiago mentioned that there was a plan to update qt-copy to 4.4 beta in about 10 days
[10:07am] milliams: piacentini: thiago said that should happen within a week or two
[10:07am] piacentini: I figure it out that I waited this long basically to get the score displaying in-game, let us do it properly
[10:07am] pcapriotti: hi, I'm a bit late... Paolo Capriotti, kbattleship maintainer
[10:07am] piacentini: And if it does not work, is ugly, or does not have good usability or performance, I will move it back to the statusbar, and finish the rest of the implementation (whic is more or less complete.)
[10:08am] milliams: Excellent
[10:08am] piacentini: So my target is end of February to move KBlocks to kdereview
[10:08am] tsdgeos: mexican wave oO0OooO0OooO0OooO0OooO0OooO0Oo
[10:08am] ratt joined the chat room.
[10:08am] piacentini: Feature set: single player, implemente woc, experiment with dynamic layout dictated by the svg theme, KGameDifficulty, and (big if) KNewStuff
[10:09am] piacentini: So: as we are talking about qt-copy and 4.4, this is also in the agenda
[10:09am] CIA-24: aacid * r769912 kapman/trunk/playground/games/kapman/CMakeLists.txt: fix tests linking
[10:09am] mikelima: piacentini: do you plan a two player mode?
[10:09am] piacentini: Are there other games that plan to use 4.4 features
[10:09am] piacentini: mikelima: no
[10:09am] piacentini: mikelima: maybe in the future, but I do not see really a big need for it now
[10:10am] DrIDK: what's new features in qt 4.4 ?
[10:10am] pcapriotti: I'll probably experiment with widget on canvases for kbattleship's welcome screen
[10:10am] mikelima: piacentini: Ok. 
[10:10am] milliams: piacentini: I think that if WoC high-scores work well, they should be used where appropriate in other games.
[10:10am] piacentini: DrIDK: of interest to games, mostly widgets on canvas I think
[10:10am] piacentini: milliams: nice idea. You mean a rework of KScoreDialog for this?
[10:10am] milliams: Also for the new-game 'dialog'
[10:10am] milliams: piacentini: Essentially, yes
[10:11am] milliams: piacentini: I'll see how you get on with it first though
[10:11am] piacentini: Cool. (I am taking notes)
[10:12am] piacentini: jpwhiting: live or logging? If you are here, can you comment on KNewStuff for 4.1?
[10:12am] piacentini: or anyone else, as we are speaking about features for 4.1
[10:12am] piacentini: And concrete plans
[10:12am] milliams: Well, I'd like to see theme downloading with knewstuff for 4.1.
[10:13am] tsdgeos: piacentini: i think it's something like 5am where jpwhiting lives
[10:13am] piacentini: Just to be more clear, I think we can start the meeting with some definition of concrete features, schedules, etc, and then move to a more relaxed exchange of ideas
[10:13am] pcapriotti: I would like to move kollision to kdereview
[10:13am] mikelima: I want theme and level set downloading in KGoldrunner through KNewstuff...
[10:13am] piacentini: tsdgeos: good point
[10:13am] annma: milliams: theme downloading? from where?
[10:13am] mikelima: I've not yet started working on that, though.
[10:13am] annma: I can pass stuff on to jpwhiting and also tsdgeos
[10:13am] piacentini: annma: Hi. Can you update us on KNewStuff status?
[10:14am] milliams: annma: Either kde-look (if possible) or games.kde.org
[10:14am] piacentini: Because this is something most games can potentially use for 4.1
[10:14am] annma: download works well,
[10:14am] annma: there are several progs using download and it works
[10:14am] tsdgeos: pcapriotti: is kollision yours?
[10:14am] pcapriotti: tsdgeos: yes
[10:14am] mikelima: If possible, kde-look would be better.
[10:14am] annma: piacentini: milliams knewstuff download works as it were in 3.5
[10:14am] mikelima: More visibility, I think
[10:15am] gvarisco joined the chat room.
[10:15am] piacentini: mikelima: kde-look is not integrated into the API I think. Good for standalone themes, but require manual installation
[10:15am] piacentini: mikelima: The goal (correct me if I am wrong) is to have new themes in a KNewStuff-enabled server
[10:15am] piacentini: To be available in-game
[10:15am] tsdgeos: pcapriotti: missing icon, configure should not be a pageddialog if it only has 1 page, cursor reappears if you move it outside the window, no doc
[10:15am] annma: the only thing missing is to get a server for the stuff
[10:16am] tsdgeos: pcapriotti: but that can be fixed in review so you have my vote
[10:16am] DrIDK: for ktank, I I thought about Map download widget too from a server
[10:16am] mikelima: piacentini: yes... I don't know how the protocol works, however...
[10:16am] piacentini: pcapriotti: same here, has my support
[10:16am] pcapriotti: tsdgeos: I already have the doc, I'll fix the rest asap
[10:17am] piacentini: mikelima: maybe we can start with one or two games?
[10:17am] mikelima: piacentini: of course.
[10:17am] piacentini: I had support for it in KMines I think
[10:17am] piacentini: But removed for lack of server and uncertain state of API for 4.0
[10:17am] mikelima: What is not clear to me is how will theme designers publish their stuff?
[10:17am] piacentini: annma: does edu have a server?
[10:17am] annma: lack of server is still a problem
[10:17am] annma: NO
[10:17am] annma: I am the only one shouting about it
[10:17am] piacentini: annma: are you downloading from where?
[10:18am] annma: edu.kde.org
[10:18am] annma: I have been fighting this for years
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[10:18am] piacentini: So, I think this is a priority if we want to enable it in games
[10:18am] annma: if we want a server we need to write it down will all needs
[10:18am] annma: yes but you all need to act
[10:18am] piacentini: Do we need a separate server, or can we let sysadmin figure it out how to best handle providing KNewStuff to the project?
[10:19am] ratt left the chat room. (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[10:19am] annma: we can let sysadmin handle it
[10:19am] piacentini: annma: if we all agree it is needed on this meeting, we can trigger the process, with support from edu as well
[10:19am] annma: Plasma will need one and I figure that at that point we'll get it
[10:19am] annma: piacentini: yes
[10:20am] annma: tsdgeos was to be made admin of a server but that went down
[10:20am] piacentini: ok, so all agree on at least attempting to provide theme download via KNewStuff in 4.1?
[10:20am] tsdgeos: +1
[10:20am] mikelima: piacentini: yes. And we do not have to convert all games to that at once.
[10:20am] piacentini: Or someone thinks it is better not to push this idea for some reason (technical or othewise)?
[10:21am] piacentini: mikelima: The idea (as it was, and commented out in some code) is to provide it in KGameThemeSelector
[10:21am] annma: jpwhiting is now KNewStuff maintainer and will help with any problem
[10:21am] piacentini: With optional parameters for the constructor to enable it or not
[10:21am] annma: sounds good
[10:21am] piacentini: So, concrete action point: talk to jpwhiting, put up a request to sysadmin (or e.V?) for a definition on this topic
[10:22am] dimsuz joined the chat room.
[10:22am] piacentini: annma, tsdgeos: e.V. should be involved, or is this just strictly sysadmin stuff?
[10:22am] mikelima: piacentini: is there a way to test this with a temporary server?
[10:22am] dimsuz: hi guys. sorry, I'm late 
[10:22am] tsdgeos: piacentini: sysadmin is enough
[10:22am] piacentini: dimsuz: hi
[10:22am] dimsuz: how is it going?
[10:22am] annma: sysadmin only
[10:22am] dimsuz: ian's with as? 
[10:22am] dimsuz: us
[10:22am] fela joined the chat room.
[10:22am] tsdgeos: piacentini: if sysadmin says "no server", then you can upscale to eV
[10:22am] tsdgeos: dimsuz: no
[10:22am] mikelima: About the other point -- how to let contributors publish their theme?
[10:22am] dimsuz: *sigh*
[10:23am] piacentini: tsdgeos: ok. So maye myself, annma and tsdgeos? I can write an email to sysadmin, with CC to you guys and jpwhiting, to trigger this
[10:23am] annma: mikelima: as temporary server you'll have to use games.kde.org
[10:23am] fela: hi, sorry for my lateness
[10:23am] annma: piacentini: yes
[10:23am] tsdgeos: piacentini: ok
[10:23am] mikelima: annma: that would be Ok.
[10:23am] tsdgeos: fela: no prob
[10:23am] dimsuz: piacentini: you're discussing themeing?
[10:23am] piacentini: dimsuz: actually KNewStuff, concrete plans for having it in 4.1. Or abandon it forever 
[10:24am] Hrafnahnef joined the chat room.
[10:24am] piacentini: OK, so let us move on, we can come back later
[10:24am] dimsuz: piacentini: never heard something about plans to abandon it - some issues exist for that?
[10:24am] piacentini: mikelima: and we can use games.kde.org for now during the beta, or at least until we figure out the server stuff
[10:24am] piacentini: mikelima: and maybe upload, after discussion with jpwhiting
[10:25am] piacentini: dimsuz: not really. It is just that I think that when an idea takes years to materialize there is probably something wrong with it 
[10:25am] annma: yes I'd like starting upload as well
[10:25am] piacentini: But it is moving now, so let us see
[10:25am] piacentini: So, back to the agenda: we have KBlocks, Kollision and Ksirk as candidates for review
[10:25am] piacentini: Any others?
[10:26am] dimsuz: piacentini: sure, but only if some other option exists  I admit that i might have missed this discussion due to being late, so let's move on 
[10:26am] tsdgeos: i'm quite unhappy with ksirk still
[10:26am] fela: I plan to finish KBreakout in time for 4.1
[10:26am] piacentini: dimsuz: (just threatening to see if we act on this 
[10:27am] piacentini: tsdgeos: I do not think it is ready yet, but maybe the process of trying to move to kdereview can help it polish
[10:27am] piacentini: fela: Good! Any updates on what is missing?
[10:27am] CIA-24: coolo * r769918 kpat/trunk/KDE/kdegames/kpat/patsolve/spider.cpp:
[10:27am] CIA-24: speedup finding solutions by 30% in finding good moves
[10:27am] CIA-24: first
[10:27am] fela: but I'll let you know when it's ready for review
[10:28am] piacentini: fela: ok
[10:28am] fela: I need to add theming support highscores and theming, mostly
[10:28am] tsdgeos: i just got the goal to conquer 0 countries and place 2 armies on each
[10:28am] tsdgeos: !!!
[10:28am] dimsuz:
[10:29am] mikelima: By the way, it's great that there are many games up for review...
[10:29am] milliams: tsdgeos: 
[10:29am] tsdgeos: but i have to acknowledge it has mproved since last time i had a look at it
[10:29am] mikelima: But will we be able to keep up development for all of them?
[10:29am] piacentini: fela: cool. Well, with KGameTheme and KScoreDialog it should not be toooo difficult, compared to the work you have done already
[10:30am] piacentini: mikelima: well, I think most are in good shape and will need minimal update during the 4.x series, hopefully
[10:30am] piacentini: Of course, improvements are welcome always
[10:31am] dimsuz: i have something in mind in the recent time: i think we need new highscore class set. or give current one a good degree of polishing
[10:31am] piacentini: So... I think this is it regarding new games ready for 4.1?
[10:31am] milliams: dimsuz: The current one will _possibly_ be moving to use WoC
[10:31am] piacentini: dimsuz: now is a good time to work/implement this. But it will have to be compatible with KScoreDialog, or we will need a clear migration path
[10:32am] CIA-24: coolo * r769919 kpat/trunk/KDE/kdegames/kpat/ (dealer.cpp dealer.h pwidget.cpp pwidget.h): always inform the user what the solver is doing
[10:32am] dimsuz: milliams: that's for kscoredialog. i mean underlying KHighscore classes
[10:32am] milliams: KHighscore was never meant to be anything more than a wrapper aroung kconfig. Perhaps adding convenience functions would make using it easier?
[10:33am] dimsuz: piacentini: speaking of which - i think that popping it up after game over (like some games do - including maintained by me) might scare the user. it sometimes scares even me  bad usability imho
[10:33am] piacentini: dimsuz: agree, that is one of the motivations for the move to a woc structure, maybe
[10:34am] piacentini: Like our current KGamePopupItem
[10:34am] dimsuz: i think at first we'll need to analize what our games' highscore requirements are. i'll think about it
[10:34am] tsdgeos: well, if you made a highscore, you have to enter the name, right?
[10:34am] • fela wonders what "woc" stands for...
[10:34am] pcapriotti: fela: widget on canvas
[10:34am] fela: ok, thx 
[10:34am] piacentini: OK, let us go back to the 4.1 agenda, not much left before free discussion 
[10:34am] piacentini: There is a SOUND item
[10:34am] piacentini: But it is vague
[10:35am] dimsuz: tsdgeos: yes. but not necessarily right after I won. imagine the user who doesn't care about highscores or wants to care about them later. he would be annoyed by seeing these popups when he *just wants to play*
[10:35am] piacentini: Personal take on this: nothing prevents games from implementing sound now, other than lack of sound designers
[10:35am] pcapriotti: about sounds, any hints on how to play multiple sounds cuncurrently?
[10:35am] pcapriotti: I'm not sure how to do it
[10:35am] piacentini: pcapriotti: isn't phonon capable of this?
[10:35am] mikelima: pcapriotti: you just play them...
[10:36am] mikelima: piacentini: yes, it is.
[10:36am] dimsuz: agreed. I spoke with it-s about sound in klines. he suggested to add "dummy" support for sounds so the game would be ready to just play them when they arrive
[10:36am] pcapriotti: in multiple MediaObject's?
[10:36am] mikelima: pcapriotti: yes.
[10:36am] piacentini: I do not think there are synchronization classes or anything like that, but firing up multiple sounds work
[10:36am] tosky joined the chat room.
[10:36am] mikelima: I have a mail from phonon author stating that it is possible.
[10:36am] pcapriotti: are they cheap to create? should I create them on demand, cache them, pool them?
[10:37am] piacentini: dimsuz: hum... I am not sure about dummy support, but it should be easy to add. Just does not make much sense without sounds 
[10:37am] mikelima: I'll forward it if you want to see it.
[10:37am] pcapriotti: mikelima: yes, thanks
[10:37am] piacentini: piacentini: but i agree, like svg
[10:37am] piacentini: someone has to start working in both code and art assets
[10:37am] mikelima: pcapriotti: no idea... we'll have to experiment.
[10:37am] piacentini: and work is easier in the future
[10:37am] dimsuz: piacentini: by "dummy" i mean: play at least something  i.e. implement support, then comment it out 
[10:37am] piacentini: dimsuz: cool
[10:38am] mikelima: piacentini: I have made up a few samples for kgoldrunner... I'll start sound support there in a short while.
[10:38am] piacentini: What I propose is that we nail (in this meeting and the next) our feature set
[10:38am] piacentini: So we are not caught by surprise at the end of March
[10:38am] tsdgeos: ktuberling has already support for sounds
[10:38am] piacentini: when the feature freeze hits
[10:38am] mikelima: I think KGoldrunner has the most demands for sounds, so if I can make them work, the other games will be easy.
[10:38am] tsdgeos: "KTuberling most advanced game in earth"
[10:38am] piacentini: mikelima: cool
[10:39am] piacentini: tsdgeos: lol
[10:39am] martin_ joined the chat room.
[10:39am] piacentini: so, I will add dummy sound support to KBlocks as well
[10:39am] tsdgeos: dinner time here, later!
[10:39am] piacentini: At least for line removal
[10:39am] mikelima: tsdgeos: well, most games sound just need "notification" type sounds...
[10:39am] piacentini: and effects
[10:39am] pcapriotti: if multiple MediaObject's need to be created, I think some kind of pooling library class could be handy
[10:39am] XT95 joined the chat room.
[10:39am] piacentini: pcapriotti: definately
[10:39am] dimsuz: this might be the way to go if we *plan* to support sounds
[10:39am] dimsuz: if we expect someone to create them 
[10:39am] dimsuz: how about searching for free samples on some CC-licensed sites?
[10:40am] dimsuz: also someone might blog about this.
[10:40am] mikelima: dimsuz: that could work... but having original stuff is better.
[10:40am] piacentini: dimsuz: agreed. So now that phonon is working, let us sound-enable some of the games, with notification-style sounds
[10:40am] XT95 left the chat room. (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[10:40am] piacentini: But...
[10:40am] tsdgeos: there's the dude that does ktuberling sounds, i can ask him about if he is able to do something else once he finishes my sounds
[10:40am] piacentini: remember that they should be themable
[10:41am] piacentini: Well, maybe not for 4.1
[10:41am] dimsuz: mikelima: that could work as a temporary solution at least.
[10:41am] piacentini: But something to keep in mind
[10:41am] pcapriotti: I still have the "cut sounds" problem, though... is it just me?
[10:41am] tsdgeos: dimsuz: CC is not ok regarding kde licensing guidelines afair
[10:41am] piacentini: pcapriotti: not just you
[10:41am] tsdgeos: pcapriotti: on newer xine and alsa (mandriva cooker) works here
[10:41am] dimsuz: tsdgeos: oops. didn't involved much in licensing stuff  ok then. any other option?
[10:41am] piacentini: But, hopefully for 4.1 this will be fixed, with gstreamer backend as well
[10:41am] mikelima: Ian's son is a musician, and he has volunteered for kgoldrunner sounds...
[10:42am] mikelima: Maybe we can have some more, afterwards.
[10:42am] pcapriotti: ok, I'll upgrade
[10:42am] piacentini: I would like to discuss the release process as well
[10:42am] tsdgeos: dimsuz: http://techbase.kde.org/index.php?title=Policies/Licensing_Policy
[10:42am] piacentini: Then we can end this part, agenda almost done
[10:42am] dimsuz: tsdgeos: thanks. will read
[10:43am] piacentini: Anyone here volunteers to do release management?
[10:43am] piacentini: I emailed Johann last week, no answer
[10:43am] piacentini: I see he is logging
[10:43am] piacentini: But we need active management
[10:43am] tsdgeos: you?
[10:43am] piacentini: I am kind of doing it, but if someone wants to
[10:43am] • dimsuz recalls that he havent heard something from/about Johann for some time
[10:43am] piacentini: I will support him/her
[10:44am] dimsuz: piacentini: if you have time, i'd vote for you with all my hands 
[10:44am] piacentini: As I am also doing some stuff for KTurtle, etc
[10:44am] piacentini: dimsuz: I can do it at least temporarily, just think it is a nice opportunity for those
[10:44am] piacentini: who want to get more involved
[10:44am] piacentini: To have something concrete to take care of, communicate with the rest of the project, etc
[10:44am] • dimsuz won't vote as he is not sure he will always find time...
[10:45am] piacentini: Well, let us think about it
[10:45am] dimsuz: s/vote/volunteer/
[10:45am] piacentini: There was an email in the kde-releaseteam ml detailing release manager duties
[10:45am] piacentini: Maybe Eugene, I will talk to him. Or maybe Johann will have time now
[10:46am] piacentini: If all fails, I can do it for 4.1 if you support it
[10:46am] martin_: It would be good if it would be someone who pushed things a bit and who is quite active: Maruicio or Eugene are doing a lot lately and would be good candidates
[10:46am] tsdgeos: eugene is too undiplomatic imho
[10:46am] dimsuz: nice plan
[10:46am] dimsuz: martin_: +1
[10:47am] piacentini: tsdgeos: well, he is an artist  But I kind of agree, this is a diplomatic position
[10:47am] piacentini: look at annma
[10:47am] dimsuz: tsdgeos: agreed, but he might become  but thinking second time: he's more creative than diplomatic.
[10:48am] piacentini: See http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-release-team&m=120059280508957&w=2
[10:49am] piacentini: Well, one minute without posts, maybe time to end the formal part?
[10:49am] piacentini: Anything else in the agenda?
[10:49am] piacentini: I think we did not cover Discussion: what worked on this release cycle, what we could improve for the next, what we should change?
[10:49am] piacentini: But this could be the topic for after the meeting
[10:50am] mikelima: All right.
[10:50am] piacentini: Ah.. there is the kde feature plan for 4.1`
[10:50am] DrIDK: .
[10:50am] mikelima: What I'd like to know, is what are the plans for the existing games too.
[10:50am] piacentini: somewhere on techbase
[10:50am] piacentini: mikelima; exactly, that is the place for features to existing games
[10:50am] mikelima: I may try to help on other games too.
[10:51am] piacentini: For existing games: I think I will work on KShisen
[10:51am] mikelima: Especially if it's something with a similar pattern...
[10:51am] pcapriotti: http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.1_Feature_Plan
[10:51am] mikelima: Say hotnewstuff.
[10:51am] mikelima: Or sound.
[10:51am] piacentini: As it needs to be converted to KScoreDialog, etc. And the other maintainers are not that active, so I think it will fall on my lap...
[10:51am] mikelima: pcapriotti: yes, but it's too little!
[10:52am] piacentini: any game you guys think could use mikelima's help?
[10:52am] pcapriotti: mikelima: we should add stuff there, I think
[10:52am] piacentini: pcapriotti: yes, that is open for addition 
[10:52am] josel: until when should a new library for kdegames be in to be used in 4.1?
[10:52am] piacentini: josel: feature freeze is March 31
[10:52am] piacentini: But it needs to be in playground before this
[10:53am] martin_: If anybody is bored: I would like to look for a maintaner for LSkat and KWin4. I dont think I will be able to maintain them properly
[10:53am] piacentini: and in kdereview before march 16
[10:53am] mikelima: If the techbase is filled in, even with things that are just "i'd like to have this", that would be a good start.
[10:53am] martin_: I pushed them to 4.0 but I cant keep a constant maintiaing going...so ifsomeone wants to do this
[10:53am] josel: well, i want to finish basic features befor moving it to kdesvn
[10:53am] dimsuz: martin_: i think your best option is to post to kde-games-devel and blog about it (or ask someone to blog)
[10:53am] piacentini: martin_: Well, maybe a co-maintainer?
[10:54am] martin_: yes, something like this
[10:54am] piacentini: martin_: So you would still helping us as best as you can?
[10:54am] mikelima: martin_ I think the games are Ok as they are, mostly...
[10:54am] piacentini: actually, Luciano (mikelima) is a perfect candidate to help you with this
[10:54am] milliams: brb
[10:54am] mikelima: Just keeping them compiling should not be much work.
[10:54am] piacentini: As he is already working with the card selection stuff, etc
[10:54am] milliams left the chat room. (Remote closed the connection)
[10:54am] martin_: yes i will help but i have time not continiouls yonly in some short burst like holiday. so i can implement features then but not react fast to butgs etc
[10:54am] josel: is there someone, who wants to do svg for ksudoku?
[10:55am] piacentini: Luciano, how about helping Martin with these games?
[10:55am] mikelima: martin_: I can help with lskat, but I'm mostly in his position...
[10:55am] piacentini: Should not be too much work, basically some bug fixing if necessary, but they are quite stable.
[10:56am] piacentini: mikelima: me too  But I think with some weekends only we can manage to maintain most of the apps
[10:56am] piacentini: Difficult part is the new features, etc
[10:56am] dimsuz_ joined the chat room.
[10:57am] piacentini: Like now in February I will have little time to work on KDE... But I asked for help with some KTurtle bugs last week (before 4.0.1), and someone appeared out of the blue and fixed it for me!
[10:57am] mikelima: So who volunteers for kwin4?
[10:57am] DrIDK left the chat room. ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
[10:57am] piacentini: mikelima: Maybe a gentle blog post. Just asking for help at this point
[10:58am] piacentini: triaging bugs, etc
[10:58am] DrIDK joined the chat room.
[10:58am] DrIDK: come back
[10:59am] piacentini: Josel: regarding svg for KSudoku
[10:59am] piacentini: Why do you need it?
[10:59am] piacentini: For themes, customization I believe?
[10:59am] XT95 joined the chat room.
[10:59am] josel: yes, and to replace the current mess
[10:59am] piacentini: Not sure if it applies really, or if you should go for a color/font customization combo
[11:00am] piacentini: josel: this is probably something you should start slowly in a branch in the future, to land when ready
[11:00am] piacentini: So it might be 4.1, 4.2, 4.3....
[11:00am] piacentini: As it is probably a more-or-less partial rewrite of the game iirc
[11:00am] milliams joined the chat room.
[11:00am] josel: it looks nice, but the underling code is in very bad shape
[11:00am] dimsuz_: ah! have you guys seen my mail about minimum sizes on first run?
[11:00am] piacentini: dimsuz: yes, nice catch
[11:01am] josel: and some features for 4.2 (i think, i can't finish them for 4.1) depend on them
[11:01am] piacentini: dimsuz: btw, KBreakout needs it
[11:01am] Pinaraf left the chat room. ("bye bye")
[11:01am] piacentini: josel: what do you need to start working on this? Maybe Eugene can give you the svg art necessary for the prototype
[11:01am] dimsuz_: piacentini: i think this should be fixed by someone. I might try if authors of games give me a permission
[11:01am] DrIDK: Did you speak about ktank ?
[11:02am] josel: i have an prototype svg
[11:02am] dimsuz_: josel: btw, i sent you crash in ksudoku, you received it?
[11:02am] XT95 left the chat room. (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[11:02am] piacentini: DrIDK: not yet. Do you want to start?
[11:02am] josel: dimsuz_: when did you sent me it?
[11:02am] piacentini: Agenda is basically finished, we gave priority to features that would/could make it for 4.1 first
[11:02am] josel: what i need is code to show it
[11:03am] DrIDK: piacentini: yes I can start when you ask me
[11:03am] dimsuz_: josel: a several weeks ago  it's simple to reproduce: just start some game and try to resize window bigger, then to a tiny minimum, then again bigger etc. SIGFPE is caught
[11:03am] piacentini: lol... DrIDK: how about KTanks?
[11:04am] milliams: piacentini: Are you going to blog the 'minutes' of the meeting?
[11:04am] DrIDK: So, let's go!
[11:04am] dimsuz_: josel: i.e. play with resizes
[11:04am] piacentini: milliams: it is carnival here in Brazil. But I should be able to do it by Monday
[11:04am] it-s joined the chat room.
[11:04am] piacentini: or if you want to do it, feel free to
[11:04am] it-s: good morning gang
[11:04am] milliams: piacentini:  There's no rush of course. Have fun partying!
[11:05am] DrIDK: as you can know, Ikit and me, and others helpers are developping ktank. This is a remake of the wii games
[11:05am] mikelima: Hi it-s! We just agreed to redo all the games in ascii art!
[11:05am] josel: dimsuz_: yeah, i saw it, someone comitted a fix for it
[11:05am] milliams: it-s: Morning 
[11:05am] piacentini: can someone email eugene a copy of the log so far?
[11:05am] piacentini: sorry DrIDK, please continue
[11:05am] pcapriotti: mikelima: lol
[11:05am] dimsuz_: josel: ah, cool
[11:05am] DrIDK: it-s: hi... you come a the good time
[11:06am] it-s: DrIDK: I just woke up 
[11:06am] piacentini: We are at the last item in the agenda, DrIDK will talk about KTanks to those who do not know it
[11:06am] emilsedgh joined the chat room.
[11:06am] DrIDK: Ktank is a project with 2 stuff :  - KTankBattle ( the games)  - Ktankeditor ( the editor)
[11:06am] DrIDK: ( sorry for my english... )
[11:07am] DrIDK: Ktank will be an openGl 2d games using a new library called : KGLengine
[11:07am] DrIDK: With KGLengine, i will be possible to develop other OPengl 2d games
[11:08am] DrIDK: KGLengine work like QGraphicsScene system
[11:08am] DrIDK: We have a scene, and we can add some Item ( KGLItem)
[11:08am] DrIDK: But it's not all
[11:09am] DrIDK: KGLengine provide new  stuff, like Key Control ( KGameKey), or  Fullscreen Mode
[11:09am] DrIDK: And Particule Engine, and Collision detector using Quadtree
[11:10am] DrIDK: So, the first game using KGLengine is Ktank
[11:10am] piacentini: DrIDK: small suggestion: take care with API names so not to clash with more global ones. A name like KGLengine is probably too generic imo, same for KGameKey.
[11:10am] piacentini: DrIDK: suggestion: find a name for the engine (think Plasma, Decibel, etc), and use it in the API
[11:11am] DrIDK: piacentini: ok, I will mind it
[11:11am] dimsuz_: bye guys. have to go  we may continue on ML 
[11:11am] piacentini: Minor, but worth it if you plan to make it reusable
[11:11am] piacentini: dimsuz: see you
[11:11am] mikelima: hi dimsuz
[11:11am] DrIDK: you can see a screenshot here :
[11:11am] DrIDK: http://ktank.free.fr/images/smoke.png
[11:11am] dimsuz_ left the chat room. (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[11:12am] DrIDK: so, ktank will be more... It will be a game playable on network
[11:12am] mikelima: what kind of game is that? Something like scorched eart?
[11:12am] DrIDK: it's a new games
[11:13am] DrIDK: you control the hull with key  ans turret with mouse
[11:13am] DrIDK: the gameplay is very nice!
[11:13am] DrIDK: Ktank want to be a "Doom Like" in 2d
[11:13am] mikelima: Can you play stand-alone, against the computer?
[11:14am] mikelima: That would be useful for players evaluating the game...
[11:14am] DrIDK: mikelima: My first objectif is to create a Network games.  After, We will create some bots with IA
[11:14am] dimsuz left the chat room. (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[11:15am] mikelima: DrIDK: Ok. Bots do not have to be too smart-- just give them enough ammo!
[11:15am] DrIDK: this game will have a lot of funny stuff! Different weapons, bullets, amor , bonus etc...
[11:16am] DrIDK: For exemple, I will create Automatic-turret
[11:16am] DrIDK: If the tank is near the turret, it will be shooted
[11:17am] DrIDK: So, now, about Ktankeditor
[11:17am] DrIDK: ikit is the developpers
[11:18am] ikit: yes 
[11:18am] piacentini: it-s: my irc client has a fancy formatting for logs, trying to fix it to send it to you
[11:18am] DrIDK: we want to have a polymorph games. All people will be able to create his map, and play on it with other people
[11:18am] it-s: piacentini: thanks *yawn* .... my head 
[11:19am] DrIDK: then, when we start ktank client on network, we can dowload automaticaly user's maps
[11:20am] DrIDK: so, now, the next week end, ikit and me will try to finish the first ktank playable
[11:20am] XT95 joined the chat room.
[11:21am] DrIDK: After, we will need help for develop with Kggz and phonon
[11:21am] it-s: did you people have a chance to discuss sounds in KDEGames?
[11:21am] DrIDK: So, I have finished... ikit, any other suggestion ?
[11:21am] piacentini: it-s: sent to your gmail address
[11:21am] emilsedgh: next week?
[11:22am] emilsedgh: yay!
[11:22am] emilsedgh: so fast
[11:22am] it-s: emilsedgh: yeah these two are ases 
[11:22am] it-s: aces
[11:22am] DrIDK: you can look some news about ktank developpement on :  http://ktank.free.fr/wordpress
[11:23am] • it-s shakes his head, but that only makes headace worth
[11:23am] DrIDK: Ikit and me are enjoy to create a kdegames
[11:23am] piacentini: people, I will have to go for a while now, helping a friend with her relocation. See you during the week, and will post about the meeting by Monday on planet.kde.org
[11:24am] it-s: so we are done then?
[11:24am] it-s: good.
[11:24am] piacentini: DrIDK: looks iike a nice plan, lots of energy. Keep it that way!
[11:24am] mikelima: all right, ciao piacentini
[11:24am] it-s: back to sleep
[11:24am] piacentini: bye people
[11:24am] it-s left the chat room. (Remote closed the connection)
[11:24am] DrIDK: I hope you have understand me with my bad english
[11:24am] DrIDK: it-s: 
[11:24am] milliams: piacentini: Cya
[11:24am] You have set yourself away with "piacentini".
[11:24am] mikelima: DrIDK: I think you have something there... I'd like a more humorous theme, but..
[11:25am] emilsedgh: DrIDK: do you think that ktank will get in the 4.1?
[11:25am] DrIDK: emilsedgh: it's a big project. I think we will have only beta version on march
[11:26am] emilsedgh: hm
[11:26am] DrIDK: my plan is to finish ktank 1.0 on junny
[11:26am] emilsedgh: so 4.2 is the target?
[11:26am] milliams: Well there's always 4.2, 4.3, 4.4 etc. 
[11:26am] DrIDK: juny
[11:26am] nicolas030 joined the chat room.
[11:26am] martin_: bye bye guys
[11:26am] DrIDK: And I want ktank to is playable on windows
[11:26am] mikelima: milliams: exactly.
[11:26am] DrIDK: for have a lot a player
[11:27am] mikelima: ciao martin_
[11:27am] martin_ left the chat room. (Remote closed the connection)
[11:27am] mikelima: DrIDK: so you develop on Windows? I pity you... 
[11:27am] DrIDK: no
[11:27am] DrIDK: I develop on linux
[11:28am] DrIDK: But, I want to create a ktank client on windows too with kde/win
[11:28am] mikelima: DrIDK: I was joking, do not thake that bad!
[11:28am] DrIDK:
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[11:28am] mikelima: All right... Supposedly, all games should be usable on Windows.
[11:29am] mikelima: Yours has this OpenGL thing, so it may be harder...
[11:29am] XT95 joined the chat room.
[11:29am] DrIDK: so, are they any kggz developpers here ?
[11:30am] DrIDK: so, for other, you can try to test ktank in :  playground/games/ktank
[11:31am] DrIDK:
[11:31am] mikelima: DrIDK: I'll have a look...
[11:32am] mikelima: so what are others up to?
[11:32am] DrIDK: mikelima: kgamekey
[11:32am] DrIDK: kgamekey is very usefull for games
[11:33am] DrIDK: Qt4 doesn't provide any control key without "delay time"
[11:33am] ianw2 joined the chat room.
[11:33am] mikelima: hi ianw2... you are a bit late! But welcome, none the less!
[11:33am] DrIDK: with KgameKey, you can press simultaneous on "Arrow Up" + Key A+ key B
[11:34am] ianw2: Am I on or not?
[11:34am] mikelima: ianw2: you are late for the conference.
[11:35am] mikelima: No big deal, howver...
[11:35am] ianw2: Yeah, I know. It was quite a dinner party ...
[11:35am] mikelima: I hope you enjoyed yourself...
[11:36am] ianw2: Yeah we did.  AAron was in good form ...;-)
[11:36am] mikelima: ianw2: I can imagine... or maybe not!
[11:36am] CIA-24: gallinari * r769951 kapman/trunk/playground/games/kapman/ (gamescene.cpp ghost.cpp kapmanmainwindow.cpp maze.cpp): Pills and energizers are now drawn before the characters (kapman and ghosts) so that they are in the background
[11:37am] ianw2: Best left unsaid ... so have you decided a lot tonight?
[11:37am] mikelima: Well, it's been interesting, but nothing decisive.
[11:38am] ianw2: Oh?
[11:39am] emilsedgh left the chat room. ("Kopete 0.12.4 : http://kopete.kde.org")
[11:39am] mikelima: I just sent you the log...
[11:39am] mikelima: Well, to summarize...
[11:39am] ianw2: Great, thanks Luciano!
[11:40am] mikelima: we have discussed about new games to include.
[11:40am] mikelima: KBlocks and ksirk have been cited...
[11:40am] DrIDK: so, I m go to slee... work ! 
[11:40am] mikelima: and..
[11:41am] DrIDK: bye
[11:41am] DrIDK left the chat room.
[11:41am] mikelima: kollision, and maybe ktank.
[11:42am] ianw2: sounds good