KDE Games/IRC Meetings/2008-07-01-log

[01:29] <piacentini> hi people
[01:29] <krish> hey piacentini
[01:30] <piacentini> let us start?
[01:30] <krish> I am here
[01:30] <piacentini> Agenda at http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Games/IRC_Meeting
[01:30] <mikelima> hi all
[01:30] <krish> thks
[01:30] <piacentini> hi, Luciano
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[01:30] <it-s> hey people
[01:30] <piacentini> Well, I think we need to talk a bit about 4.1
[01:30] <it-s> I'm here
[01:31] <piacentini> Anyone seen Matt recently?
[01:31] <it-s> nope
[01:31] <it-s> I'm beginning to worry
[01:31] <piacentini> Well, I do not think there is much to do. Any stuff pending?
[01:31] <piacentini> I will take that as a NO
[01:31] <it-s> well, I'm still working with a couple of devs on getting the visuals right
[01:32] <it-s> but rather then that - all is good
[01:32] <piacentini> Artwork freeze is next Tuesday, right?
[01:32] <it-s> I think so
[01:32] <piacentini> OK, so I think we are basically ready for 4.1, and can start planning ahead
[01:32] <it-s> I'm almost done anyways
[01:33] <piacentini> About the current state of the module, I think we are fine, but not much new is happening
[01:33] <piacentini> Which is ok after the push we had in the past 18 months
[01:33] <it-s> well, we will have a welcome addition for 4.2
[01:33] <piacentini> But we could surely use Akademy to boost our efforts again
[01:33] <it-s> a few of those I think
[01:33] <mikelima> piacentini: well, there are quite a few new games, though.
[01:34] <it-s> piacentini: well, they have rejected my presentation this year :/ I have been depressed for a week
[01:34] <krish> akademy?
[01:34] <piacentini> Not good... any reason?
[01:34] <it-s> piacentini: no reasons given
[01:34] <it-s> just a "sorry, no space for you'
[01:34] <piacentini> Well, we can still do a BoF session and discuss 4.2 issues
[01:35] <krish> No talks for kdegames this time ?
[01:35] <piacentini> maybe the BoF is even more useful than a presentation slot, as a consolation prize
[01:35] <it-s> nope
[01:35] <mikelima> it-s: well, you can alwaysw arrangue us at the BOF!
[01:35] <it-s> mikelima: yeahm that I will ;) but I hoped I'll have a go at the entire KDE with a presentation :P
[01:36] <it-s> anyhow
[01:36] <piacentini> about the new games, let us know
[01:36] <it-s> a new *sure* addition to 4.2 will be Ktron resurected by LegolasV
[01:36] <it-s> LegolasV: are you here to speak?
[01:36] <mikelima> oh, nice.
[01:37] <LegolasV> it-s: hey
[01:37] <it-s> LegolasV: please introduce yourself to the gang
[01:37] <LegolasV> it-s: yep I'm here, just not speaking that much as I am working on some university things ;)
[01:37] <krish> gang!
[01:37] <LegolasV> ok
[01:37] <LegolasV> well.. Hi, I'm Stas, from the Netherlands
[01:37] <LegolasV> currently working on Ktron (/SnaKe)
[01:38] <LegolasV> and computer science student at the University of Twente
[01:38] <krish> nice
[01:39] <krish> btw, I wanted to say something.
[01:39] <it-s> krish: go ahead
[01:39] <krish> I have been talking to LFY magazine people
[01:39] <krish> LFY = LinuxForYou
[01:39] <krish> I proposed that I'd write a games column for them.
[01:39] <tsdgeos> roxxors
[01:40] <krish> continuous series of game reviews
[01:40] <it-s> krish: :D have they excepted?
[01:40] <krish> it-s: its still in discussion
[01:40] <it-s> wow! we (may) have our on personal publicity and promotions department! :D
[01:40] <krish> If they accept, I'd need details from developers/maintainers of kdegames 
[01:41] <krish> it-s: no thats not the agenda
[01:41] <krish> the agenda is to make kdegames known to newbies who buy that magazine
[01:41] <krish> and even pros who like games
[01:42] <it-s> krish: I know, but still, even if you manage to push KDEGames forth for a review at least as often as once every 3 month, wthe module will get some attention
[01:42] <krish> it-s: yes thats what is going on in my mind
[01:42] <it-s> but back to Ktron
[01:42] <krish> ok
[01:42] <it-s> basicly LegolasV has prted the whole thing in less then a week (I think)
[01:42] <krish> but remember. this is subject to *If* they accept my proposal
[01:43] <krish> back to Ktron
[01:43] <DrIDK> I here.. sorry
[01:43] <piacentini> OK, let us organize this a bit
[01:43] <piacentini> and follow the agenda
[01:43] <CIA-49> huftis * r826925 internal/trunk/ (47 files in 21 dirs): Updated Northern Sami translations for kde4-trunk and summit.
[01:44] <piacentini> Legolas, anything you want to say about Ktron?
[01:44] <LegolasV> hm, let's see
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[01:45] <it-s_> sorry, I keep getting disconnectd
[01:45] <LegolasV> the last screenshot of the SnaKe mode I made probably was: http://www.legolasweb.nl/tmp/ktron3.png and for normal: http://www.legolasweb.nl/tmp/ktron2.png
[01:46] <piacentini> Cool, it would be good to have these back
[01:46] <it-s_> LegolasV: one think I noticed today while compiling the playground is that Ktron somehow depends on libksirtet
[01:46] <it-s_> LegolasV: does it really?
[01:47] <LegolasV> not that I know of... maybe I made a mistake on my cmakelists.txt
[01:47] <it-s_> ok
[01:48] <DrIDK> LegolasV: did you think about ktron's theme ?
[01:48] <piacentini> Everything looks clean in the CMakeList
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[01:49] <krish> dont tell me everyone's an artist here!
[01:49] <LegolasV> DrIDK: it-s and I have tought about the theme, and I think we are going now to a sort of snakes in a grassland with apples and bushes theme
[01:50] <piacentini> Looks cool to me. Let us move to the Akademy discussion to speed up things?
[01:50] <piacentini> And then come back for the presentaitons?
[01:51] <piacentini> For Akademy, there is not much to say
[01:51] <piacentini> Except I would like to know who will be there
[01:51] <piacentini> A little show of hands?
[01:51] <piacentini> me
[01:51] <mikelima> Here I come!
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[01:51] <piacentini> Ian is coming
[01:51] <piacentini> pinotree?
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[01:51] <CIA-49> renard * r826933 messages/trunk/l10n-kde4/fr/messages/kdegames/ (kspaceduel.po libkdegames.po): Mise ?\195?\160 jour par Julien Angot
[01:51] <pinotree> yes?
[01:51] <piacentini> Eugene is coming to akademy?
[01:51] <DrIDK> me
[01:52] <piacentini> pinotree: are you going to Akademy?
[01:52] <DrIDK> piacentini: yes, eugen comes
[01:52] <mikelima> although I may have to sleep under a tree on saturday...
[01:52] <pinotree> as long as i find a place where sleep, sure :)
[01:52] <piacentini> No vacancies at the hostel?
[01:52] <pinotree> no
[01:52] <it-s__> I come on 6th... have no idea what am I gona do till 8th :/
[01:52] <piacentini> suggestion: Eugene hunts for a place so the others can sleep :)
[01:53] <pinotree> it-s__: come on, at least don't make you find by us as sleepy :)
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[01:54] <krish> MPX and how can we utilize it (discussion) ?
[01:54] <piacentini> So, I will attempt to register space for a BoF when it opens
[01:54] <it-s__> ok, well the person I invited from Xorg couldn't make it
[01:54] <piacentini> Given that we will have quorum for a good discusstion
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[01:55] <it-s__> so all I can do is show you this cool video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AryCQ8Ybp6A (sorry it's you tube, couldn't find it in any other format)
[01:55] <it-s__> and this website for details: http://wearables.unisa.edu.au/mpx/?q=mpx
[01:55] <it-s__> basicly MPX is Multy Pointer X server
[01:56] <it-s__> it's already merged into Xorg trunc, though I'm not sure about the details
[01:56] <krish> does this already exist in xfce
[01:56] <it-s__> I was hoping the guest speaker would explain about it
[01:56] <it-s__> krish: no idea
[01:56] <krish> ah where did I see this earlier
[01:56] <krish> I have seen/read multipoint somewhere I cant remember now
[01:56] <mikelima> well, some two-player game may get easier to write...
[01:56] <it-s__> it allows users to connect more then one pointer device/keyboard to X server
[01:57] <it-s__> mikelima: exactly
[01:57] <it-s__> and I see Kmahjongg as a primery condidate
[01:57] <mikelima> But does Qt support the extension?
[01:57] <it-s__> then Ktron would be very cool in 2 player mode
[01:57] <it-s__> mikelima: that I don't know
[01:58] <it-s__> the website basicly has all the relevan information go get people started
[01:58] <it-s__> and DrIDK says it's not that difficult too
[01:58] <piacentini> It seems like something very distant from what we could practically use for 4.2, though. Maybe once it is integrated into Qt (or kdelibs) then we can make use of this.
[01:58] <it-s__> that could be a key selling point for kdegames
[01:59] <it-s__> piacentini: ok. I'll see how I can push the idea in
[01:59] <piacentini> sure
[01:59] <piacentini> But I suspect once it is popular you just "gets it" with Xorg
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[02:00] <piacentini> So nothing special needs to be done in games, only be aware of the possibility of multiple output
[02:00] <krish> any game having good support for gamepads and joysticks
[02:00] <piacentini> which is someting Qt would need to handle for us
[02:00] <mikelima> piacentini: yes... but look at all the X extensions that nobody uses...
[02:00] <piacentini> We can not use them directly without alienating our cross platform friends that will arrive in 4.1 as well
[02:00] <mikelima> Although this one is "hip", since it's sort-of what the iphone and company use.
[02:01] <piacentini> So I think it needs to be supported at a lower level
[02:02] <it-s__> piacentini: the same thing is comming in for windows and mac in near future. at least everione seems to be talking about it a lot
[02:02] <it-s__> it just so happens that we got it first
[02:02] <piacentini> Sure. The point is that we do not want to write specific code to handle it on each platform
[02:02] <it-s__> piacentini: true
[02:02] <piacentini> We need to encourage it to be supported at the Qt or kdelibs level
[02:03] <it-s__> piacentini: good pint
[02:03] <piacentini> That was my point. And sure, we can have a game to be used as a test case for it
[02:03] <it-s__> piacentini: :)
[02:03] <krish> it-s_ we may have got it first. but there are people who will eventually claim that its under their dRM and invention
[02:03] <it-s__> krish: scrue them. what's they gona do?
[02:04] <piacentini> We have another item on the agenda, Sound. And I think we can conclude after this
[02:04] <piacentini> And continue chatting
[02:04] <piacentini> Sound?
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[02:05] <piacentini> Probably it-s added it
[02:05] <DrIDK> I have something to say about sound
[02:05] <piacentini> Go on
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[02:06] <DrIDK> So, For ktank, I found Fmod lib, for manage sound in games! It's more easy than phonon! Fmod is create For games!
[02:07] <mikelima> DrIDK: wasn't SDLMixer enough?
[02:07] <it-s> this Phonon lib is a disaster! it doesn't do anything
[02:07] <it-s> not even desktop sounds are handeled right
[02:07] <piacentini> fmod lib is not open source (or it was not last time I checked)
[02:07] <DrIDK> piacentini: really ??
[02:07] <piacentini> I think it is available only in binary mode, let me check
[02:08] <mikelima> Well, i tend to agree... but maybe it will get better in the future.
[02:08] <mikelima> We should prod the developers a bit though.
[02:08] <piacentini> I agree with mikelima, not sure what to do about it
[02:08] <HappySmileMan> Desktop sounds aren't handled right, how so?
[02:08] <piacentini> mikelima: Akademy could be good for it
[02:08] <mikelima> Although, they are much harder to trigger than aseigo...
[02:08] <krish> fmod exists on kde trunk?
[02:09] <it-s> HappySmileMan: some sounds are cut in the middle, the startup sound seldom plays to the end, sometimes sounds just diasppar
[02:09] <mikelima> anybody tried kgoldrunner?
[02:09] <krish> mikelima: I did
[02:09] <mikelima> I'm interested in how sound work for you...
[02:09] <piacentini> FMOD is a very good commercial sound engine
[02:09] <piacentini> It can be licensed for free for shareware games and hobbysts
[02:09] <HappySmileMan> Hmm, never really payed much attention to that, I do think I recall it cutting out though...
[02:09] <krish> mikelima: no, I dont think I heard any sound
[02:09] <piacentini> But it does not come with source, and licensing is not compatible with KDE
[02:09] <mikelima> uhm...
[02:09] <it-s> ok. I have to go now
[02:10] <it-s> lunch time
[02:10] <mikelima> When did you compile it?
[02:10] <piacentini> mikelima: for me Phonon still cuts all sounds
[02:10] <it-s> see you all soon
[02:10] <krish> mikelima: let me see wait
[02:10] <piacentini> it-s: see you, bye!
[02:10] <tsdgeos> piacentini: tried gstreamer backend?
[02:10] <piacentini> tsdgeos: not yet
[02:10] <piacentini> supposedly better?
[02:10] <mikelima> There is an option in the settings menu.
[02:10] <mikelima> Check that it is checked.
[02:10] <tsdgeos> piacentini: seems so
[02:11] <mikelima> uhm... the clipping wsa due to an old xine lib, I think...
[02:11] <piacentini> Well, as I say, we are in a position where we need to wait for Phonon backends to mature, and support the devs
[02:11] <HappySmileMan> Is the gstreamer backend supposedly better than the Xine one?
[02:11] <mikelima> It's a bit nicer here, but not by much.
[02:11] <mikelima> And gstreamer seemed to work much better.
[02:11] <mikelima> HappySmileMan: it handles more channels better.
[02:12] <krish> mikelima: around april 29 I guess
[02:12] <krish> mikelima: I dont have the build now. Installed opensuse11 yesterday
[02:12] <mikelima> piacentini: on the other hand, phonon does not look a good solution for games...
[02:12] <piacentini> People, I need to leave as well in a minute. Agenda is complete, so I think we can call the meeting over, and continue chatting in the channel. Good to see you all here, hopefully we can get productive again near Akademy :)
[02:13] <mikelima> it is made to handle streams, while we want sample banks.
[02:13] <krish> ok so I stop the log here?
[02:13] <mikelima> krish: I did a few updates later.
[02:13] <DrIDK> fmod seems to be not opensource... :( :( .....
[02:13] <mikelima> I think the sound was disabled at that date...
[02:13] <piacentini> krish: can you post to the wiki?
[02:13] <krish> piacentini: yes. already doing
[02:13] <piacentini> good!